I really can't begin to understand what the show is doing with the Aegon thing, except I think they have combined Jon and Young Griff's storyline. They have gone crazy melding characters, like they are in some genetic splicing laboratory!
If Jon turns out to be a Targaryen, I do think he probably has a different legal name, though I doubt he might ever go by that name. I prefer Jaehaerys myself, if anyone is keeping count. I think Jon would chose to be Jon Snow, as that is his whole persona, and links him both to the Starks and the north.
Put me down for Aemon. I swear there is no way Martin named him Aegon, that would be so stupid.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
Post by DarkSister1001 on Jan 2, 2018 23:56:42 GMT
I'm playing catch-up (as per usual) so I haven't read through all the posts in this thread yet. I have a slight case of GRRM ADHD and I don't think it's relative to any parentage...did I miss discussion about Bran not being mentioned as part of the procession?
The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.
For me Benjen's response was the most conclusive proof against the theory of him being Jon's father. The way he said it made me feel he'd never have given him up to be raised by Ned or anyone. It just feels like he regrets not having a son of his own, in this case Jon. And doesn't seem too concerned about the vowel of the NW when he's voicing his wish.
I completely agree. IMO this discredits any possible ?+Benjen=Jon theory.
I assume Benjen was the Stark in WF when Ned rode off to war. That would mean when Ned came home with Jon that Benjen had not yet taken his oath.
Always thought these words will come back to be true by the end of the series. If I recall correctly this is not the only time Martin points out to Tyrion casting a large shadow. But it is impressive to notice how in a chapter that's all about Jon really, we do get so much of Tyrion's character shining through by a minimum of dialog between these two.
You are correct. There's still a ways to go before we get there but I believe it's the scene on the ship when someone (Morqoor?) is looking into the flames.
Those always made me think of A+J=T. Along with his dwarfism and appearance. We see a steady flow of "monsters" and dying in the birthing bed when anyone non-Targaryen mates with a Targ. There's enough holes in that theory that make me feel like I'd be ok with whomever is Tyrion's true father.
We haven't seen this so far in the story, but we soon learn that Rhaegar is mostly associated with a high harp, singing a sad song that makes women weep. Could this song be a ballad? Even though it's mentioned so many times during the books, we don't get the text; here Jon can't hear the words. A nice image, no? Clever to put a Rhaegar reference in the background there. Then he draws a link to Robert, and we get the triangle Robert - Lyanna - Rhaegar connected to Jon.
Nice catch! We'll learn who that bard is later, another possible Jon Daddy.
To me, Ghost is the color of the weirwoods and associated with the old gods. Bloodraven is also this color, white hair, red eye, but he too is not colored like a Targaryen as much as he is colored like the weirwood tree's and the old gods.
Whether Jon ends up being a bastard or some true born heir to some great household, he thinks like a bastard and it has shaped him into the young man he is. That will never change, no matter the truth of his parenthood.
I agree. Bastard or not he needed to grow up as a bastard to become what the world needs him to be. No highlord, no matter the family, would be able to do what Jon does/will do.
"I don't even know who my mother was," Jon said. AGOT-Jon I
And now, finally, we get another hint to the mystery of Jon Snow. Until this moment, I don't think the reader realized that Jon doesn't know who his mother is/was.
Why does Jon assume his mother is dead? Bc GRRM wants us to know that she is.
The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.
"I don't even know who my mother was," Jon said. AGOT-Jon I
And now, finally, we get another hint to the mystery of Jon Snow. Until this moment, I don't think the reader realized that Jon doesn't know who his mother is/was.
Why does Jon assume his mother is dead? Bc GRRM wants us to know that she is.
It's possible that Jon has been told before that his mother is dead, or he assumes if she was alive, then she would be somewhat involved with his life.
Maybe that is the author giving us a clue. The text certainly leads us, and Jon, to think she is dead. But GRRM is tricky, so is he leading us to believe one thing, when the truth is the opposite, and we should maybe consider that Jon's mother is alive? I swear, I question everything about the text and what is implied these days. It feels like I have been infected with a disease!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Post by DarkSister1001 on Jan 3, 2018 16:00:10 GMT
Laughter boomed all around him, and Jon felt hot tears on his cheeks.
Ser Barristan rose stiff and slow. For the first time, he looked his age. "Where shall we go, Your Grace?" "To hell, to serve King Robert." Dany felt hot tears on her cheeks.
- ASoS, Dany V
The ONLY times in the entire series someone feels hot tears on their cheeks.
The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.
He might not want to hurt Robert directly, but his death could be the result non the less. After Robert dies, Ned does make steps to that if sucessfull would place him and his daugters back in the north where they belong. The boar that kills robert gets a knife through one eye and is called a bastard by Robert the Usurper; this invokes Bloodraven that is entangled in a weirwood and the ultimate defender of the true Targaryen line. Not saying Bloodraven skinchanged into the boar, just that mayhaps the old gods had a finger in this. It does happen in one of the few remaining big forrests left in Westeros, so the thought is compelling to me. At least the image is created.
I have seen the Bloodraven idea before when it comes to the boar that killed Robert, and it's possible. I had just never attributed it to a curse that Ned spoke casually in the Winterfell godswood. It has a tragic and beauty to it at the same time, just like Robert telling Ned in the crypts of Winterfell, "And if I hear 'Your Grace' once more, I'll have your head on a spike". It seems like "someone" was listening, and two casual remarks by the best of friends might have doomed them booth. That is the bittersweet, painful stuff that GRRM gives us!
I actually have not heard that before and I like it! I don't have solid evidence for this but I suspect that BR skinchanged the stag that killed the DW mom. Homie is still playing the game! But that's tinfoil for another day.
The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.
Laughter boomed all around him, and Jon felt hot tears on his cheeks.
Ser Barristan rose stiff and slow. For the first time, he looked his age. "Where shall we go, Your Grace?" "To hell, to serve King Robert." Dany felt hot tears on her cheeks.
- ASoS, Dany V
The ONLY times in the entire series someone feels hot tears on their cheeks.
It does seem like a connection between Jon and Dany, and we know that GRRM picks his words with care. However, there are other hot tears in the story.
Twice, Dany's tears turn to steam.
She wept for her child, the promise of a sweet mouth on her breast, but her tears turned to steam as they touched her skin. ... She had wept in her dream, and the tears had turned to steam on her cheeks. AGOT-Daenerys IX
Steam is very hot! That GRRM states this twice in one chapter means we should be paying attention, but I am not sure if that is because the tears are so hot, or that Dany herself is so hot she turns the tears to steam? Is it because Dany has become a "dragon"? What do other people think about this statement?
The tears are not on her cheeks, but Arya experiences hot tears!
Curls of ash floated up the chimney. Arya squatted beside the fire, watching them rise through a veil of hot tears. If Winterfell is truly gone, is this my home now? Am I still Arya, or only Nan the serving girl, for forever and forever and forever? ACOK-Arya X
And, while the tears are not described as hot, these tears burn Bran's cheeks.
He looked deep into the heart of winter, and then he cried out, afraid, and the heat of his tears burned on his cheeks. AGOT-Bran III
I suppose Bran's tears could be "burning" with cold.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
It does seem like a connection between Jon and Dany, and we know that GRRM picks his words with care. However, there are other hot tears in the story.
IMO to state on Jon and Dany once in the exact sentence (save for name and gender) shows a pretty clear connection. I'm not one of a Dany + Jon shipper but I see the signs. Ugh
Steam is very hot! That GRRM states this twice in one chapter means we should be paying attention, but I am not sure if that is because the tears are so hot, or that Dany herself is so hot she turns the tears to steam? Is it because Dany has become a "dragon"? What do other people think about this statement?
I think it's bc the skin is Targ hot.
The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.
It does seem like a connection between Jon and Dany, and we know that GRRM picks his words with care. However, there are other hot tears in the story.
IMO to state on Jon and Dany once in the exact sentence (save for name and gender) shows a pretty clear connection. I'm not one of a Dany + Jon shipper but I see the signs. Ugh
Steam is very hot! That GRRM states this twice in one chapter means we should be paying attention, but I am not sure if that is because the tears are so hot, or that Dany herself is so hot she turns the tears to steam? Is it because Dany has become a "dragon"? What do other people think about this statement?
I think it's bc the skin is Targ hot.
I don't ship Jon and Dany either, but I agree there are hints of some type of future connection between them. Blech!
However, I have wondered if this idea of tears burning skin links Dany more to the Starks than any of the Stark's to the Targaryen's. After all, hot tears can only burn your skin if your skin is cold, or colder than the tears, any way.
It is only after Dany sacrifices Rhaego, that her tears turn to steam. Something that she did there made a difference. After that, she is not afraid to walk into a burning pyre. She has embraced her fire side and her gift was dragons!
Craster gives his son's to the ice and Dany gave her son to the fire!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Nice catch! We'll learn who that bard is later, another possible Jon Daddy.
Thanks! Even if this particular bard isn't Mance, the connection is made with him bringing this one up when talking with Jon. That we never hear Mance playing a harp, or that he knows how to play it, makes me think this bard came with Robert. Still, the point remains!
I'm playing catch-up (as per usual) so I haven't read through all the posts in this thread yet. I have a slight case of GRRM ADHD and I don't think it's relative to any parentage...did I miss discussion about Bran not being mentioned as part of the procession?
Haha, me too! But no, I don't think there was any discussion of the non-mention of Bran here. Personally I don't have much to say on that right now.
It's possible that Jon has been told before that his mother is dead, or he assumes if she was alive, then she would be somewhat involved with his life.
Maybe that is the author giving us a clue. The text certainly leads us, and Jon, to think she is dead. But GRRM is tricky, so is he leading us to believe one thing, when the truth is the opposite, and we should maybe consider that Jon's mother is alive? I swear, I question everything about the text and what is implied these days. It feels like I have been infected with a disease!
Does Jon really think his mother is dead? I'll have to reread Jon to be sure, but my headcanon says later thoughts indicate he doesn't know for sure. I'll look into it shortly!
In any case, I hold the possibility for her being alive open! One part of that is the text leading the reader to think so, so I'll go the other way. But mostly it's because I'm not firmly set on who his mother is.
I actually have not heard that before and I like it! I don't have solid evidence for this but I suspect that BR skinchanged the stag that killed the DW mom. Homie is still playing the game! But that's tinfoil for another day.
I'm not sure how much this has been discussed here, but there are threads over at W at least. The gist of it comes down to this:
His men brought him close. Ned steadied himself with a hand on the bedpost. He had only to look down at Robert to know how bad it was. "What …?" he began, his throat clenched. "A boar." Lord Renly was still in his hunting greens, his cloak spattered with blood. "A devil," the king husked. "My own fault. Too much wine, damn me to hell. Missed my thrust." "And where were the rest of you?" Ned demanded of Lord Renly. "Where was Ser Barristan and the Kingsguard?" Renly's mouth twitched. "My brother commanded us to stand aside and let him take the boar alone." Eddard Stark lifted the blanket. They had done what they could to close him up, but it was nowhere near enough. The boar must have been a fearsome thing. It had ripped the king from groin to nipple with its tusks. The wine-soaked bandages that Grand Maester Pycelle had applied were already black with blood, and the smell off the wound was hideous. Ned's stomach turned. He let the blanket fall. "Stinks," Robert said. "The stink of death, don't think I can't smell it. Bastard did me good, eh? But I … I paid him back in kind, Ned." The king's smile was as terrible as his wound, his teeth red. "Drove a knife right through his eye. Ask them if I didn't. Ask them."
A Game of Thrones - Eddard XIII
Robert calling the boar a devil and a bastard, and taking one of his eyes. My own emphasis on Robert taking it on alone (can't remember if that has been done before), as it reminds me of Brynden losing his eye in single combat. Wraith could probably fill you in more here, if I missed anything.
And your connection to Brynden skinchanging that stag too is interesting! Have thought of it before, but I'm not convinced one way or another with either the boar or the stag. Not sure how important it really is.
Steam is very hot! That GRRM states this twice in one chapter means we should be paying attention, but I am not sure if that is because the tears are so hot, or that Dany herself is so hot she turns the tears to steam? Is it because Dany has become a "dragon"? What do other people think about this statement?
Need to think a bit more on this, but it makes me think of blood steaming from wounds at and beyond the Wall. Which in turn makes me think of steaming dragonblood when they take a wound.
As for shiping Jon and Dany: I hope all seas, lakes, rivers and streams run dry!
His men brought him close. Ned steadied himself with a hand on the bedpost. He had only to look down at Robert to know how bad it was. "What …?" he began, his throat clenched. "A boar." Lord Renly was still in his hunting greens, his cloak spattered with blood. "A devil," the king husked. "My own fault. Too much wine, damn me to hell. Missed my thrust." "And where were the rest of you?" Ned demanded of Lord Renly. "Where was Ser Barristan and the Kingsguard?" Renly's mouth twitched. "My brother commanded us to stand aside and let him take the boar alone." Eddard Stark lifted the blanket. They had done what they could to close him up, but it was nowhere near enough. The boar must have been a fearsome thing. It had ripped the king from groin to nipple with its tusks. The wine-soaked bandages that Grand Maester Pycelle had applied were already black with blood, and the smell off the wound was hideous. Ned's stomach turned. He let the blanket fall. "Stinks," Robert said. "The stink of death, don't think I can't smell it. Bastard did me good, eh? But I … I paid him back in kind, Ned." The king's smile was as terrible as his wound, his teeth red. "Drove a knife right through his eye. Ask them if I didn't. Ask them."
Robert calling the boar a devil and a bastard, and taking one of his eyes. My own emphasis on Robert taking it on alone (can't remember if that has been done before), as it reminds me of Brynden losing his eye in single combat. Wraith could probably fill you in more here, if I missed anything.
And your connection to Brynden skinchanging that stag too is interesting! Have thought of it before, but I'm not convinced one way or another with either the boar or the stag. Not sure how important it really is.
I like the idea very much of Bloodraven being responsible for Robert's death, as a means of keeping things in motion. And the above text does hint, rather strongly, I might add, that Bloodraven, one-eyed devil and bastard that he is, might have been responsible for the boar that killed Robert.
But, while going through chapters in Clash, I came across this passage, which never struck me before. To busy focusing on other things I guess, but now, it is making me wonder.
This passage closely follows Renly's death from a black shadow that, according to both Catelyn and Brienne, looked suspiciously like Stannis. And it is cemented in same chapter that Stannis is directing Davos to take Melisandre to the caves under Storm's End, where we will see another suspicious death to Cortnay Penrose.
"Robert could piss in a cup and men would call it wine, but I offer them pure cold water and they squint in suspicion and mutter to each other about how queer it tastes." Stannis ground his teeth. "If someone said I had magicked myself into a boar to kill Robert, likely they would believe that as well." ACOK-Davos II
We certainly know that Stannis, with the assistance of Mel, is responsible for Renly's death. As they are later responsible for the death of Cortney Penrose. With what seems to be a dark type of magic.
This statement by GRRM about Stannis "magick"ing himself into a boar and killing Robert's is interesting. Is the author telling us that Stannis could be responsible for Robert's death, or is this the author pointing out that while Stannis is innocent of Robert's death, is is certainly responsible for Renly's. Using irony for Robert's death while pointing the finger squarely at Stannis and Mel.
As to Renly's death, I have wondered how aware Stannis is of his culpibility. He reports that Mel seen Renly's death in her fires, just as she saw Cortnay Penrose's death. Davos notes that Stannis "looks half a corpse too, years older" than before Renly's death. Whether Stannis really understands how Renly died, his body is paying the price for being a kinslayer.
Stannis is haunted by dreams of Renly after Renly's death:
"And for Renly?" The words were out before Davos could stop to consider them.
For a long time the king did not speak. Then, very softly, he said, "I dream of it sometimes. Of Renly's dying. A green tent, candles, a woman screaming. And blood." Stannis looked down at his hands. "I was still abed when he died. Your Devan will tell you. He tried to wake me. Dawn was nigh and my lords were waiting, fretting. I should have been ahorse, armored. I knew Renly would attack at break of day. Devan says I thrashed and cried out, but what does it matter? It was a dream. I was in my tent when Renly died, and when I woke my hands were clean." Ser Davos Seaworth could feel his phantom fingertips start to itch. Something is wrong here, the onetime smuggler thought. Yet he nodded and said, "I see." ACOK-Davos II
I honestly can't be sure that Stannis understands that he is responsible for Renly's death, but he is certainly haunted by it, becomes haggard and aged by it. But he gives all credit the the Lord of Light. While his bannermen argue about who is responsible for Renly's murder, Stannis brushes if all to the side.
"Enough!" Stannis said. "The Lord of Light willed that my brother die for his treason. Who did the deed matters not." ACOK-Davos II
Melisandre has Stannis hooked. But she had to prove to him, a stubborn non-believer, several times how strong her power was as well as the power of the Lord of Light.
Did Melisandre predict Robert's death? Did she work "magick" to make it happen? Not the same type of magic that killed Renly, I don't think, because Stannis isn't haunted by Robert's death (that we are told, any way) nor does he seem terribly haggard and aged when we first meet Stannis, not like he is after Renly's death. But still, I wonder what Melisandre is capable of doing to manipulate Stannis to believe in her and her red god. Something changed in Stannis at some point, as our first time meeting him, he has allowed Melisandre to burn the statues of the seven on the beach at Dragonstone. It seems like that is an action that, if doesn't change him, would be something he would not have allowed before. Did Robert's death prove something to Stannis, and could Melisandre be responsible for Robert's death in the same way she is responsible for Renly and Cortnay Penrose's death?
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
I like the idea very much of Bloodraven being responsible for Robert's death, as a means of keeping things in motion. And the above text does hint, rather strongly, I might add, that Bloodraven, one-eyed devil and bastard that he is, might have been responsible for the boar that killed Robert.
I like it too. It brings to mind the secret meeting between Varys & the Cheesemonger and discussing keeping things tame for a while. IF one of those 2 is a BF it would be great if BR had killed Robert via boar. It ALL goes back to the Great Bastards.
"Robert could piss in a cup and men would call it wine, but I offer them pure cold water and they squint in suspicion and mutter to each other about how queer it tastes." Stannis ground his teeth. "If someone said I had magicked myself into a boar to kill Robert, likely they would believe that as well." ACOK-Davos
I never put that together either! Nice!
The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.
Robert calling the boar a devil and a bastard, and taking one of his eyes. My own emphasis on Robert taking it on alone (can't remember if that has been done before), as it reminds me of Brynden losing his eye in single combat. Wraith could probably fill you in more here, if I missed anything.
And your connection to Brynden skinchanging that stag too is interesting! Have thought of it before, but I'm not convinced one way or another with either the boar or the stag. Not sure how important it really is.
Got most of it. Also he say's the gods sent the boar to judge him, Brynden is the closest thing to the Will of the Old Gods that we are likely to see.
I like the idea very much of Bloodraven being responsible for Robert's death, as a means of keeping things in motion. And the above text does hint, rather strongly, I might add, that Bloodraven, one-eyed devil and bastard that he is, might have been responsible for the boar that killed Robert.
Considering that two of the brothers Baratheon have been killed by magical means what is the likelyhood that Stannis is killed by magic?
Robert is killed by the Old Gods, Renly by the Red God, guess that means Stannis will be killed by the Seven... which makes sense considering he burned them on Dragonstone.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
Considering that two of the brothers Baratheon have been killed by magical means what is the likelyhood that Stannis is killed by magic?
Robert is killed by the Old Gods, Renly by the Red God, guess that means Stannis will be killed by the Seven... which makes sense considering he burned them on Dragonstone.
I like the idea very much of Bloodraven being responsible for Robert's death, as a means of keeping things in motion. And the above text does hint, rather strongly, I might add, that Bloodraven, one-eyed devil and bastard that he is, might have been responsible for the boar that killed Robert.
But, while going through chapters in Clash, I came across this passage, which never struck me before. To busy focusing on other things I guess, but now, it is making me wonder.
This passage closely follows Renly's death from a black shadow that, according to both Catelyn and Brienne, looked suspiciously like Stannis. And it is cemented in same chapter that Stannis is directing Davos to take Melisandre to the caves under Storm's End, where we will see another suspicious death to Cortnay Penrose.
"Robert could piss in a cup and men would call it wine, but I offer them pure cold water and they squint in suspicion and mutter to each other about how queer it tastes." Stannis ground his teeth. "If someone said I had magicked myself into a boar to kill Robert, likely they would believe that as well." ACOK-Davos II
We certainly know that Stannis, with the assistance of Mel, is responsible for Renly's death. As they are later responsible for the death of Cortney Penrose. With what seems to be a dark type of magic.
This statement by GRRM about Stannis "magick"ing himself into a boar and killing Robert's is interesting. Is the author telling us that Stannis could be responsible for Robert's death, or is this the author pointing out that while Stannis is innocent of Robert's death, is is certainly responsible for Renly's. Using irony for Robert's death while pointing the finger squarely at Stannis and Mel.
Nice! Hadn't made that connection either in my last reread of that chapter. I don't think Stannis had anything to do with Robert's death (for now), the MO seems too far from Melisandre's modus operandi imo. It could be a hint that someone (Brynden) did magick into the boar, while the thought is far fetched to Stannis as the very pragmatic man that he is. I don't see him as the kind who believes in the old skinchanger-stories, or most other stories with paranormal elements. Melisandre managed to prover herself, probably after very hard work, and as said uses a very different style. The finger-pointing is certainly there when it comes to Renly, though.
As to Renly's death, I have wondered how aware Stannis is of his culpibility. He reports that Mel seen Renly's death in her fires, just as she saw Cortnay Penrose's death. Davos notes that Stannis "looks half a corpse too, years older" than before Renly's death. Whether Stannis really understands how Renly died, his body is paying the price for being a kinslayer.
He's obviously haunted, by that peach in particular it seems; but I too doubt he really understands that "dream". However, I won't disregard the toll his loss of King's Landing has in this either. It could depend on what Melisandre told him before the battle, and even for a hardened battle commander I guess seeing his army engulfed in wildfire would be hard. So I think it could be a combination of several things. And if Melisandre has kept on draining him of energy as the time went on. She notes that she usually slept with Stannis until he left Castle Black, so who knows what she did to him!
Did Melisandre predict Robert's death? Did she work "magick" to make it happen? Not the same type of magic that killed Renly, I don't think, because Stannis isn't haunted by Robert's death (that we are told, any way) nor does he seem terribly haggard and aged when we first meet Stannis, not like he is after Renly's death. But still, I wonder what Melisandre is capable of doing to manipulate Stannis to believe in her and her red god. Something changed in Stannis at some point, as our first time meeting him, he has allowed Melisandre to burn the statues of the seven on the beach at Dragonstone. It seems like that is an action that, if doesn't change him, would be something he would not have allowed before. Did Robert's death prove something to Stannis, and could Melisandre be responsible for Robert's death in the same way she is responsible for Renly and Cortnay Penrose's death?
Well, we don't know when she entered his circle do we? A bit of real-time thinking here, so I might be a bit off. We know Selyse is Mel's way in, but when did she enter Selyse's company and convert her? IIRC we don't hear about Mel staying in King's Landing or being known there. So do we know if Stannis and Selyse lived apart, in KL and Dragonstone respectively? I'm not sure off the top of my head, but it sounds right to me. If so, I'd say Stannis only met Mel after leaving KL, which leaves Mel with little time to convince a stubborn man like Stannis of her powers and what (she believes) will happen. Predicting Robert's death would be a big part of that, and maybe even Ned getting swept along in the aftermath. If she got that right, I'd say Stannis would listen. I think her progress with Jon, or lack there of might be a better wording, mirrors her progress with Stannis. And Jon tells her flat out that her results are far from accurate. Cheap tricks and a smattering of glamour stands out, but are not enough to fully convince him. But as we see no evidence of her being able to skingchange or anything that could explain the boar to my satisfaction, I'm inclined to think this was an event she was able to see correctly, but nothing more.
I like it too. It brings to mind the secret meeting between Varys & the Cheesemonger and discussing keeping things tame for a while. IF one of those 2 is a BF it would be great if BR had killed Robert via boar. It ALL goes back to the Great Bastards.
It does! And as stdaga has wondered a few times now, is Bittersteel involved still in a manner similar to Bloodraven? Haven't concluded anything about that yet, or sure how he'd be able to do that, but it is an interesting question!
Got most of it. Also he say's the gods sent the boar to judge him, Brynden is the closest thing to the Will of the Old Gods that we are likely to see.
Thanks! Had a feeling I forgot something there. And very true about Brynden! Damn, what I would give to pick that man's brain! Without entering the weirnet myself, of course...
Considering that two of the brothers Baratheon have been killed by magical means what is the likelyhood that Stannis is killed by magic?
Robert is killed by the Old Gods, Renly by the Red God, guess that means Stannis will be killed by the Seven... which makes sense considering he burned them on Dragonstone.
Interesting! That didn't occur to me. With the Seven being the gods he attacked, that would make sense. And so far they haven't made an appearance like the Old Gods and Rhollor has in a way.
I do think that would be a deal-breaker... But with Stannis being so pragmatic, and actually considerate of what people think, I'm far from convinced he'll do that even as a last resort. He's too aware of what the fall-out would be from that, as "his" fire-followers are too few of his men. And if one thing has been made clear during his march to Winterfell, it's the religious disputes in his camp.