Post by markg171 on Oct 30, 2015 0:22:32 GMT
Oct 29, 2015 21:22:13 GMT @danceswithflagons said:
I'd also add Robert Baratheon as a great example of this. He's a great rider as evidenced by the fact that even while immensely fat he can still vault off his horse
That he can wield a warhammer so huge that Ned can't even lift it from horseback
And most important of all, that in an hour of riding Ned can't catch up to Robert, and they both outdistance Robert's guards, by quite a bit.
And yet Robert's jousting abilities?
He was nothing special.
Horsemanship has never been the be all, done all for determining jousting abilities unless you're trying to make a case for Lyanna being the KOTLT.
Here's another quote that is often taken out of context
Domeric Bolton, once again like harwin someone who was a better rider than Lyanna no less, only showed "great promise in the list". Not "Domeric Bolton was unhorsing champion jousters in the lists". He showed promise, because there is more to jousting than just being a great rider. He had the great riding down pat, but he wasn't killing it because there's more to jousting.
People like to take these two quotes out of context, but what they're really showing, and what common sense actually tells you, is that the real important part of jousting is handling the lance, not riding your horse well. You can ride your horse amazingly well, but if you can't hit your opponent it means nothing. Jousting is about hitting your opponent with your lance, not riding past him on your horse in a straight line really well.
If one takes the short stature described to the KotLT as ruling out all but Benjen, Lyanna and Howland, which I do not, I would look to Benjen as the best jouster. He trained for combat at Winterfell and had a great coach in horsemanship. At only a slightly younger age than Lyanna he would be stronger and better trained. Poor Benjen never gets any mention in story though.
Don't forget that it's not just the hammer that Robert was skilled with. He nearly kills Jon Connington, as well as does kill Ser Myles Mooton (Rhaegar's former squire) and 5 others with a sword in the Battle of the Bells, he kills the monstrous boar that kills him with a dagger, he's killed thousands of other boars with a spear, and in the Cersei quote I originally provided Cersei says he also used axes in his melees. So he's great with a large variety of weapons. Yet nothing special as a jouster.
As to Benjen, IIRC, per Bran's vision of Benjen and Lyanna sparring with sticks, Lyanna was taller than Benjen. Now they were like 10 at the time and they obviously would have grown more in the next 4 years till Harrenhal, but the only canon we have actually establishes Benjen as the smallest Stark of the 4 who would have been at Harrenhal, not Lyanna. I also don't accept that the small of stature leaves only those 3 candidates, but if it did Lyanna actually was the tallest of them then based on the only heights we have and therefore least likely to fit the role lol.